Focus on the New User

New ideas, features you wish were in the game.
udosdottir
Clear Yeek
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue 06.03.2007, 13:48

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by udosdottir » Sun 26.08.2007, 00:24

Posted by: Berendol
All the way at the top of every Forum page, next to Who's Playing link, there's a Library link. That's the Wiki I set up in December. I think I set it up to require registration, but that's rather painless and you get credited for your work.
The Wiki somehow doesn't work for me. I could register and all that, but i cannot create a new page.
I actually (re)wrote a tutorial for MAngband based on the 'quick introduction' to Angband by Robert Rühlmann. I created the page 'tutorial', pasted the text there, but when i hit 'cancel', 'save' or 'preview' my browser gets stuck.

Maybe i just mail it to you as a suggestion?

Ashi
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun 10.11.2002, 19:58

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Ashi » Sun 26.08.2007, 20:00

Flambard hit the nail on the head. In Moria, when you press '?', the first screen shows you the full commands list. It would be nice to offer newcomers a quick reference in this way as well as an up-to-date player's guide there. The nice part about this is that it seems to be server-specific so you don't need to rely on anyone to update the client or whatever if you already own a server.

A few years ago there was a server called "floofy-skirts" that had a VERY nice tutorial in its '?' screen. If you can track down someone associated with that server, their tutorial might be something well worth sharing with new players.

Also I think the MOTD screen used to say "Hit '?' for Help". I think that should be reinstated!

Domino
Giant Hunter Ant
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat 26.10.2002, 22:42
Location: Mountain View, CA  U.S.A.

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Domino » Mon 27.08.2007, 17:35

As for the Macros - Do people not look at the options and settings link on Mangband.org anymore?  I wrote that thing years ago and it's really simple to edit macros by means of directly manipulating the file.
King of the Hill Baby!

Fink
Ancient MultiHued Dragon
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue 20.01.2004, 13:55

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Fink » Mon 27.08.2007, 22:04

Well, re: macros, I'm trying to think in terms of the short-term user who may find it a bit daunting to pore over text files, or wade through the kooky macro menu. It would be great to have a setup that defangs macros for the short- and medium-term user, who may find arcane kookiness to be a minus as they check out the game.

Domino
Giant Hunter Ant
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat 26.10.2002, 22:42
Location: Mountain View, CA  U.S.A.

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Domino » Tue 28.08.2007, 15:59

Well, I'd be happy to whip up some starting level, commented , class based macros that could be packaged up in the client download.  I've already got a set that I use personally.  I'd have to comment them a bit better and provide a text document describing the keymaps.  I do understand.  The reason I came up with the documentation posted on the main site in the first place was because macro functionality in the client is so horrible and it was THE most common question asked: How do I make macros?  Telling someone how to do it through the client is an exercise in futility.  Especially if you forget what a key does or make a mistake.  I remember at one point I even made a keyboard overlay for Bigjuan and Varguar so they knew what keys did what hehe.

I'd even be willing to get some directions worked up to go with them, such as: If you're playing a ranger, firing your bow at the closest target is mapped to F1 but you need to remember to inscribe your ammo with @f1 or it won't work, oh and don't forget to wield your shooter!  

Those could be included in the help screens within the game.  Then all we would need to do is set the MOTD to something like:

Welcome new players, press ? to find out important information about the actions available to your class.

Before I do start work on that though I'd like some input from at least one server admin that they would be implemented on your server.  I don't have a whole lot of time to devote to Mangband these days and I don't want to waste that time on documentation if it's not going to be useful or wanted.
King of the Hill Baby!

Fink
Ancient MultiHued Dragon
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue 20.01.2004, 13:55

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Fink » Tue 30.10.2007, 21:19

Having spent some time as a lowbie on the new instance(s), I want to bring up again something I mentioned above:

Monsters that can kill a new player in town suck! Seriously, what kind of game has monsters spawn in the town, who happily tool and destroy new players? This is incomprehendisly sucky and insane. As I brought up above, it pains me to think how many new players abandoned MAngband due to this completely sucky aspect of the game.

New players are a good thing, not a bad thing! Let's make them want to stay!

Fink
Ancient MultiHued Dragon
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue 20.01.2004, 13:55

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Fink » Tue 30.10.2007, 21:34

[quote author=udosdottir link=board=thinktank;num=1187839387;start=0#11 date=08/25/07 at 05:00:49]
Another Problem: perception in the community. Some of the players with midgame or endgame characters maybe should simply write about their experiences in the angband newsgroup. Simply so that people see that mangband is still alive. Most of the player to player communication is dealt with in the chat in Mang, but this makes mangband lose touch with the rest of the angband community. This is bad and makes us miss a lot of potential players. Maybe some equipment discussions could be brought to the newsgroup like: Am i ready to face Morgoth? - or whatever discussion.
[/quote]

Well put, Udosdottir. We have pretty much become divorced from our brothers and sisters over at rgra, and from Angband in general. Jug, via Ironman, tried to put some effort in keeping MAngband present on those people's radar, and we should think about continuing the effort. I particularly like the idea of our *Kings* posting writeups in rgra, and as well adding the occasional "guide" style post such as you mentioned. I nominate Warrior and Angus for the first blast of these kinds of newsgroup posts! :)

User avatar
Warrior
Evil Iggy
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat 26.10.2002, 15:00
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Warrior » Wed 31.10.2007, 04:09

First you want me to build a level 50 mage (and any other class) from scratch and then you want me to spend hours at unfamiliar forums?  ::)

Anyway, I'm registered over at the Angband.oook.cz forums and made my first post there in their Say hello thread back in August.

I think that in the past it's kinda been an unwritten "law" that we don't want too much attention. We don't want people running around at all kinds of forums trying to "sell" our variant, but I imagine with the release of 1.0 that might change somewhat. We'll still be the coolest kid in class (the whole school too, of course), so we won't be overdoing it, but we will participate where participation would be natural.



...And on another note, I again would object against removing townspeople, if you can't deal with townspeople you won't be able to deal with mangband. Put a max on it - maybe, like 150 or 200 and more specifically maybe a max of 5-6 bsv's.

Oh and by the way, running in town now works, finally, after 10 years!  ;D

For the first few years when I suggested it I kinda had some hope that it'd get implemented... But when I logged in on 1.0 for the first time and noticed it was finally there it came as a huge surprise. :)
-- Mangband Project Team Member

Ashi
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun 10.11.2002, 19:58

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Ashi » Fri 02.11.2007, 15:57

someone need a mage? he.he

I actually have been interested in making some class-specific guides similar to PW's recent Sorceror post. I even have a txt file full of notes I took while starting up mages a few weeks ago. I stopped writing for a number of reasons, mainly because three server resets in three weeks sort of killed my interest in playing for a while.

Fink
Ancient MultiHued Dragon
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue 20.01.2004, 13:55

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Fink » Fri 02.11.2007, 20:36

Well, all the more reason, then, to shift focus on a well-put-together brain-dump/guide on playing mages in MAngband! Get crackin!

Fink
Ancient MultiHued Dragon
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue 20.01.2004, 13:55

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Fink » Sun 18.11.2007, 17:36

Re: townies.

Since 8/17/2007 (that is, about three months), the irc_gate has reported tho following deaths related to these three townies:


...was killed by a Battle-scarred veteran ---68
...was killed by a Mean looking mercenary  
---30
...was killed by an Aimless looking merchant
--- 3


Thats 30-odd deaths a month to townies. However you want to break that down, it still comes out as one thing: townies suck, and play a large part in quickly and efficiently making new players want to bail on MAngband.


<edit>


Oh, and as a sad epilogue related to the above, we have the following coup de grâce from Mangband in its fight against new players:

...ghost was destroyed by a Battle scarred veteran.--- 22

Nice.

User avatar
Warrior
Evil Iggy
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat 26.10.2002, 15:00
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Warrior » Sun 18.11.2007, 19:35

3/4'ths of that is Billsey or yourself!
Drama queen.
::)


but ok, if someone has a good solution that doesn't involve removing townspeople, shout it out.

My own suggestion? ban them from inner town and reduce their damage. Or just make them ignore low level chars. They'll fight back if attacked though.

Maybe.
-- Mangband Project Team Member

Fink
Ancient MultiHued Dragon
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue 20.01.2004, 13:55

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Fink » Sun 18.11.2007, 23:49

[quote author=Warrior link=board=thinktank;num=1187839387;start=15#26 date=11/18/07 at 19:35:54]3/4'ths of that is Billsey or yourself!
[/quote]

...quick check through the logs ... and, no.


But, anyhoo, yeah - keep the ideas coming of a good way to sort the issue out.


<edit>

As a purely apocryphal point of data, every time I've had a non-roguelike player sit down and try out Angband or MAngband, they invariably ask "how can i not attack these towns people?"

ie, having the people populating your starting town be enemies that you need to kill really doesn't make a lot of sense to someone showing up to the game. I bring this bit up to point at the underlying idea of not just having monsters (ie, enemies) in town, but also that these enemies are townspeople - which, when you think about it, is kind of a wierd idea.

Berendol
Evil Iggy
Posts: 868
Joined: Mon 11.11.2002, 19:13
Location: Loot Pile
Contact:

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Berendol » Mon 19.11.2007, 21:56

Well, here's this perennial topic again.

I have a fresh idea this time around.

Here's the first part, which has already been hashed and rehashed every year. What if the area townies couldn't kill or overwhelm you in the main Town level, but there were townies in the 'populated' town surround area? (This means moving hard-hitters like BSVs to the outer town rings, as has been suggested, and limiting the number of pickpockets to a much smaller number.)

Here's my unique *I think* idea. What if, when a newbie dies in the slightly unsafe outskirts of town (say rings 1 and 2) to whatever mobs lurk there, what if their ghost automatically teleports to the 'safe' inner town area and the game tells them something to that effect? "You die. You are teleported to the center of Town." This would eliminate most of the accidental newbie kills and ghost kills by BSVs, and still allow us the "pleasure" of killing them from time to time on the way to our houses. Heck, this could facilitate dueling without fear of ghost kills. But we'd have to make sure it accounted for 'icky' spaces so you could fight off a marauder in your own house and remain in the area.

Also, I think that if something kills someone in town rings, then that thing should be teleported at least 50 squares away so they have a chance to recollect their bones before something or someone steals them.

Just an old lurker's ideas.
By appreciation, we make excellence in others our own property. (Voltaire)

Fink
Ancient MultiHued Dragon
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue 20.01.2004, 13:55

Re: Focus on the New User

Post by Fink » Mon 19.11.2007, 23:11

Heck, I'd even be a fan of disallowing level 1 players from even leaving town, heh, for their own good. :P


<edit

Oh, and Berendol - things that get "hashed and rehashed every year" generaly do so for a reason: they are recurring problems that need to be addressed, and their recurrence is a quick and dirty way of identifying more visible or high pri things to look at.

Post Reply