Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

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eidolon
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Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by eidolon » Sun 07.06.2009, 22:06

Noticed today that if you kill a unique that you have already slain before, they don't drop *anything*, not treasure they would normally generate (good), *or* items they pick up (very, very bad).

schroeder
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by schroeder » Sun 07.06.2009, 22:50

This is mostly an issue during rescues, which i've noticed before. Its really not cool when you do a rescue, and then kill harowen or someone, only to realized that you just destroyed nearly all of someone's gear. At the same time though if pre-killed uniques dropped picked-up items, this could be abused so that you let the unique that picks everything up out of the vault, then kill it, and reap the rewards. The only way I could think to get around that, would be to have them drop items only if the game would check somehow if the item had already been picked up by someone before. Though thats actually a rare case, so it would be worth it to just make them droped picked up items if they had already been killed.
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eidolon
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by eidolon » Mon 08.06.2009, 02:57

schroeder wrote:At the same time though if pre-killed uniques dropped picked-up items, this could be abused so that you let the unique that picks everything up out of the vault, then kill it, and reap the rewards. The only way I could think to get around that, would be to have them drop items only if the game would check somehow if the item had already been picked up by someone before. Though thats actually a rare case, so it would be worth it to just make them droped picked up items if they had already been killed.
That's an issue with any monster though. Unless you're talking doing something like banishing the contents of a vault so the unique is all that's left so it can grab the items and then be killed at your convenience, but that could be done with a unique you hadn't killed yet anyway. Not much of a concern I think, since it's something that can happen in any number of other ways as well, and the amount of potential loss from the way things are now is much larger than the amount of gain you could get by using previously killed uniques to gather loot.

PowerWyrm
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by PowerWyrm » Mon 08.06.2009, 11:16

This has been added to prevent people for killing uniques multiple times for easy loot. Especially Wormtongue. Without this check, it would be too abusable. Having them not drop the things they pick up is a bad thing though... but remember, monsters didn't drop anything they picked up before.

PowerWyrm
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by PowerWyrm » Mon 08.06.2009, 11:16

And of course this is not a bug, but a feature...

serina
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by serina » Mon 08.06.2009, 21:26

I am glad that there's this potential penalty to death. Dying to a unique should be more painful than dying to regular monsters. Morgoth has a hard time killing players and making them stay dead or gearless already. (Mind you, I'm part of the reason for performing rescues...) But I don't want all the players to disappear forever...

ZAL

schroeder
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by schroeder » Tue 09.06.2009, 03:51

Trader!!!! How dare you support the forces of morgoth, that foul scourge of darkness.

I just think that, since if someone else who hadn't killed the unique did the rescue, they could get that gear back, its not right for them to lose it, cus you killed the unique.
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
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eidolon
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by eidolon » Tue 09.06.2009, 05:52

Honestly, I'm less concerned with losing gear I already have to it, and more concerned with the fact that a unique I've already killed could pick up all the loot in a vault and leave me with nothing to show for my effort of killing all the other no doubt nastier stuff in there.

schroeder
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by schroeder » Tue 09.06.2009, 06:01

rofl. Well, this won't happen too much. In order for a previously killed unique to be generated on a lvl, 1 of 2 things must happen:
1.The first person to enter the lvl must not have killed the unique. The unique would be generated at lvl generation.

2. Any person on the lvl has not killed the unique, and then the game generates a monster somewhere cus of that, after lvl generation.


Both of these are easily solved by having the person who has NOT killed it yet do the dirty work.
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
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Michailski
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by Michailski » Tue 09.06.2009, 21:43

schroeder wrote:rofl. Well, this won't happen too much. In order for a previously killed unique to be generated on a lvl, 1 of 2 things must happen:
1.The first person to enter the lvl must not have killed the unique. The unique would be generated at lvl generation.

2. Any person on the lvl has not killed the unique, and then the game generates a monster somewhere cus of that, after lvl generation.


Both of these are easily solved by having the person who has NOT killed it yet do the dirty work.
Wait.. Mom.. The Person which was killed by a Unique shall kill it to get the Stuff back (the Stuff which was not good enough to survive !)? Sounds awesome. ;)
Maybe it would be better to Shout: Hey! I am alive again ! Gimme my Sword and Fight like a Man !

Yes, i am kidding. Read your lines again and think about. =)

There are another Points like...
1.) there is another Player at the level which hasn t killed the Unique, than he may get your Drops. Maybe not all but a few. But he may not know if that was your Stuff and/or he will loose his chance to get his own drops from the Unique.
2.) a Player crossed (entered and left the level). You don t know that he did. (To prevent possible Questions about. Maybe he left allready or he died too and suicided. Or he doesn t read the Chat while diving, like me allmost.)
3.) afaik at Vaults you can find Uniques which you have allready killed.
4.) And if the Unique picked up enouth Trash after your items you will get only the Trash.

Okay, that to Schroeders answere. But like earlier allready written. The death has his Price here. Sometimes you are Lucky and sometimes it hurts. I have a Char at the Top Leveler Ranking which i suicided after the Rescue because nearly nothing of his Stuff remained (and thats only ONE example of my losts since i play). It was hard but i know... We would all be: Rich/Immortal/Bored! ..if we would get all Stuff back after Death all the Time.

Here and there you hear the Talk about NoGhost Option for all. Some of the People do not even really play, but they Post here. I am agaist that Idea! I think you loose enough at Death and you have enough bonus if you play "brave". So in my opinion its okay that way as it is. ;)

[sales promotion].......................................................................................................................................................................................[Salespromotion]

But still are the Shops from "Black Jack" filled with really powerfull Stuff. I don´t know how long. Experiencent Players buy at Black Jack´s ! ^^

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Last edited by Michailski on Wed 10.06.2009, 08:32, edited 2 times in total.
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schroeder
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by schroeder » Tue 09.06.2009, 22:19

Michailski wrote:Wait.. Mom.. The Person which was killed by a Unique shall kill it to get the Stuff back (the Stuff which was not good enough to survive !)? Sounds awesome. ;)
Maybe it would be better to Shout: Hey! I am alive again ! Gimme my Sword and Fight like a Man !

Yes, i am kidding. Read your lines again and think about. =)
Sorry if it was written confusingly, but I think its not that unclear what I meant. "they could get that gear back" references not all their gear, bug just the gear that the unique picked up from the floor
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
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Michailski
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by Michailski » Wed 10.06.2009, 08:48

schroeder wrote:Sorry if it was written confusingly, but I think its not that unclear what I meant. "they could get that gear back" references not all their gear, bug just the gear that the unique picked up from the floor
It isn´t written confusingly. Its really clear what you meant. But the Idea is confused. ;)
How should someone get his Stuff back from a Enemy that allready killed him ? He is missing his Stuff and a lot of Levels ! First think about, then post. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8uAvMey ... r_embedded Three little pigs
My english isnt bad. I am ahead of time. I use the spelling reform of the english language starting 2010.

schroeder
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by schroeder » Wed 10.06.2009, 16:10

ok, now i'm confused about what you mean. The person who was killed would not be killing the thing that killed him. Like in any rescue, it would be the person who was doing the rescuing. If i, once again, didn't understand what you meant here, i'm sorry, but trust me, i am not a fool, and i do think before I post (usually, unless i'm just trying to be funny).

But we've gotten a bit off topic now...
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
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Emulord
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by Emulord » Thu 11.06.2009, 00:39

at low levels, with no help Ive killed uniques that killed me with my ghost. So this isnt entirely unfair. Once that becomes impossible, you should have spare equipment and/or money in a house. So this isnt too unfair imo. You'll never be left with NOTHING unless its a OOD unique at low levels.

Ace
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Re: Previously killed uniques don't drop things they pick up

Post by Ace » Thu 11.06.2009, 08:13

I think if the player can kill the monster again is not the "monster's" problem. And if the items are lost is also no monster problem :) but in kinds of fairness and to have it a tiney bit realistic i think stuff should drop until there is no further room.

So to summarize
monster killed by person that had the unique = drops only items that were picked up.
monster killed by person that had not the unique = items that were picked up, unique monster items


i think today if the rescure (or killed person) had already the unique killed they get nuthin.......

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