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Re: rules

Post by PowerWyrm » Thu 06.12.2012, 12:17

[quote="Warrior"]2) Don't give things of value away. Sell them.
Update: Once in a while an item will appear in the shops at a discount. If this item is stacked with other objects of the same kind, the discount will be copied to the new items. This has been used as a way to get around the current pricing system, allowing for large amounts of items being sold very cheaply in Player Stores. This is no longer allowed.[/quote]

Are you SURE this is the case? I thought discounts in player shops were just ignored. In any case, they should... a discount in a player shop has totally no meaning. Or simple remove discounts, as I said in my previous post...

Skeleton Hobgoblin
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Re: rules

Post by Gorom » Fri 24.01.2014, 20:04

The orcus patrol and greyshoe's characters have kind of started a small "war". He thinks that we are a bit to crazy and need to control our selves but we are. to see some offenses of grey see 'New Characters in Peril' for the details. The main part of my post here is about death rules and the dead player's loot. I talked to thorbear about it yesterday and he said that it was legal for grey to swoop in take all the stuff and leave. BUT rule 1 states this...

"1) When your ghost dies, you start over from scratch.
This means you don't get to keep any of your old stuff, even if by some magic it happens to still exist. If you partied with someone then died and ghost-died the members of your party (or whoever finds what used to be your stuff) can do with it what they want, but your character is gone forever and you should just move on. Remember: Ghosts do not exist in Angband at all. Playable and resurrectable ghosts were a gift from the original creators of MAngband meant to compensate for network problems and bugs. Most of these have been addressed, and very few player deaths now actually have anything to do with bugs or network issues. it does happen, but it's very rare."

I read the rule as if you GHOST die. Not die. It says "If you partied with someone THEN DIED THEN GHOST-DIED the members of your party (or whoever finds what used to be your stuff) can do with it what they want, but your character is gone forever and you should just move on. " This says ghost died. Greyshoe came and took live bandur's things. He claims in 'New Characters in Peril' that he did those things to survive. But my question is how does he know where to find us every time we get a ZCOD, GCV, death zone, ect. when bandur was going to take on Gabriel the angle dude, grey was there with in minutes. The only way he could know that is if he was on IRC. Most players are respectful when playing and avoid other player's floors and vaults. I don't think it is very smart for a level 30ish should be on floor 2950+ and not be able to deal with LIGHT HOUNDS!!! But instead according to bandur, ran into something was summoned on and then destructed right next to the mega vault right next to the loot. Then he moved a bit over to get the rest of the loot from the vault. WHY NOT JUST TELE AWAY???!?! to any admin who has seen this post please help out. do something. The old PVP way was taken away to protect the low level characters for being killed by the high level characters. Bandur and I agree that the anti PVP way is a just a way for jerk players to do what they want and not be smashed by level 50s. There should be a way for a special PVP for certian players. The way that it works now 1 person can go hostile and the other doesn't have to go hostile. It is stupid how you can't kill the offenders. Just add in some possible way so that the admin can make a player hostile vs someone/some party. The big point of my large rant is that the rules need to be changed so that grey and friends will stop. So please do something about him. In terms of maturity I think that he is acting younger than me and bandur. The only thing that I ever did was take 10k gold from him by accident because of a large lag spike caused by my mom pulling the router which shut my game down. That was it and then when i got back grey was dead so i couldn't really give it to him and roguest left a bit later so we didn't make a deal so bandur told me to drop it in the dungeon. Better that no one has it. again. PLEASE respond in game and also here. Greatly appriciated :D

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Evil Iggy
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Re: rules

Post by Warrior » Fri 24.01.2014, 21:13

MAngband is an old game. The rules we have now are basically the same, at least in "spirit", as they were in the 90's (when they were so called "unwritten rules"). Our game is a game that is meant to be challenging and it is a game that is meant to be fun. Finding the right balance between the two can be tough and to "help" our players achieve that we have written down some rules.

It used to be possible to attack other players at will. We removed that option some years ago since we, all in all, felt that it took more away from the game than it added to it. This was mostly due to certain characters killing other players to get their stuff and to just be mean/annoying. The bad thing about removing the ability to kill another player (or at least hunt them and give them a good scare) is that conflicts now tend to escalate, endlessly. As seems to be the case with your "war".

Like mentioned by PowerWyrm in another thread, it takes a bit of time and effort to dig into logs to determine what really happened in any particular situation. It's not an especially enjoyable task and most of the time the MAngband Project Team (which includes myself, Thorbear, Flambard, Billsey and Jug) will make a ruling based on gut feeling or just our general understanding of the "spirit of the game". If someone is breaking the rules consistently and especially after having been warned in the past, we will take action.

To clarify on rule 1).
If your ghost dies (e.g. your character is completely gone), you must start over from scratch. If you were in a party with another character, that character can take your loot. Under no circumstances can you give a level 1 character stuff that belonged to his old character (or give him/her any other stuff). Any other player can also take your loot. The same way they (techically) can at any stage in the game. But they typically won't. Because they don't want "wars".

I believe the point that Greyshoe is trying to make here is that the game in many ways is like life itself. If you behave badly you will be treated accordingly. In real life behaving badly might be being rude, violent or cheating on your girlfriend. It will be frowned upon and a bad reputation will often work against you. Similarly, in the game many will consider giving stuff away for free to your own (or other) low level characters to be bad behaviour and most will think you're a bastard if you steal from them. While Greyshoe's way of getting this point through might be annoying and uncomfortable for you guys, he's not breaking any rules. The thing to keep in mind is that you're not entitled to anything. If you drop something on the floor, it can be picked up by another player. As you've noticed. While this isn't "nice", it's within the rules. When you say "Most players are respectful when playing and avoid other player's floors and vaults", this is very true and in large part due to the fact that most players have never given anyone a reason to do otherwise. Most players will never experience being stolen from, mostly because they haven't given anyone a reason to steal from them. We're all in the same boat in a way, trying to fight our way through the minions of darkness, down to 5000 feet and kill Morgoth.

I've given the Orcus Patrol a pretty severe warning in the past and you should all be aware that if you keep cheezing, we will have to take action. I guess perhaps this might be the part that is hardest for you guys to understand. If someone else gets a free ride, it sort of ruins someone elses enjoyment of the game. While PowerWyrm may have you think that it's difficult to "punish" a player, believe me when I say that it is very easy. I can log into your character and retire him or just change the password to something exotic. But the point here isn't to try to scare anyone. I want all players to get along and having to resort to "punishment" is in my head just silly. We're not that big a community.

I could write about this until tomorrow but I'll try to make this brief:

Treat each other nice. If you can't stand each other, start using channels to keep chat only within your party. E.g. If you type #orcus in the chat window you will enter a separate channel where no one else will hear you, only players who have entered #orcus. You can still PM people outside your channel.

In my opinion no rules have been broken. Hopefully it'll stay that way. If the "war" continues, we might have to resolve to adding "rules" to stop it, but please know that it's just as likely that we'll make a decision to have all your characters removed. That goes for both parties in this war. No killing, no stealing, no bumping into each other endlessly, no foul play. Rules or no rules.

...If this subject comes up again, my time will not be spent writing a long reply to something that's already been discussed. Just be nice, damnit. It's a game of @ vs P.
-- Mangband Project Team Member

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