Max stats on race/type?

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Bomben
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Max stats on race/type?

Post by Bomben » Mon 18.08.2008, 10:33

Hi!

Been investing in potions of <stat> when I could, and I seem to have hit a limit on some stats.

This limit is being hinted at, and specified in a few examples in the newbie guide. Is there a list somewhere of what those limits are?

Jug
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Re: Max stats on race/type?

Post by Jug » Mon 18.08.2008, 11:33

The reason you haven't found a simple list of stat limits is because it's slightly more complicated than that. Maximum stat values are effected by race, class and the "maximise mode" player option. Also bear in mind that stats can be raised beyond the class/race (natural) maximum using magical items which grant pluses to stats. In Angband maximise mode is an option the player can choose, but in MAngband the choice is made for you, all characters start with maximise mode enabled.

Maybe someone has drawn up a table of the natural max stat values for each race/class combination? I haven't seen it, so here's the explanation from the Angband FAQ:
All characters receive stat modifiers based on their race and class (Half-Trolls get an INT penalty, Priests get a WIS bonus, and so forth). The maximize mode flag determines how these modifiers are applied to the character's actual stats. Since this obviously affects character creation, the value of this flag must be chosen before you create your character.

As an example of how this works, imagine rolling up a High-Elf Mage. High-Elf Mages receive a combined racial and class bonus of +6 to INT; for purposes of illustration, let's say the stat roller rolls a 17 INT (the highest possible value before modification).

In non-maximize mode, the +6 bonus is applied much as if the character quaffed six Potions of Intelligence. The positive side of this is that your character can get a starting INT of around 18/70, since each "potion" can give them more than 10 percentiles once they are past 18. The negative side of this is that this 18/70 is now your character's base INT, and without stat-boosting items, he/she can only push their base INT up to 18/100.

In maximize mode, the +6 bonus is applied as though the character had swallowed a Ring of Intelligence (+6). The negative side of this is that your character can't get a starting INT above 18/50 (17 plus the +6 "ring" bonus). The positive side of this is that although the effective INT is 18/50, the base INT is only 17; once you've pushed your character's base INT up to 18/100, the effective INT without stat-boosting items will be 18/160!

On the flip side, our High-Elf Mage also gets a combined -4 penalty to STR. In non-maximize mode, this is treated like quaffing four Potions of Weakness, but your character's STR can still be increased all the way up to 18/100. In maximize mode, you've effectively got a Spleen of Weakness (-4), which means that your character's maximum possible effective STR, without stat-boosting items, is 18/60 (18/100 base plus the -4 penalty).

In summary, then in non-maximize mode, your character will get bettter starting stats, and all stats will max out at 18/100. This typically makes the early game easier, while in maximize mode, your character's starting stats aren't as good, but the primary stat(s) will max out above 18/100, while the "off" stats will max out below 18/100. This typically makes the end game easier.

Bomben
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Re: Max stats on race/type?

Post by Bomben » Mon 18.08.2008, 15:56

So if I understand it correctly:

As a basis characters have a limit on all stats at 18/100. No matter the game form.
In non-maximised mode the stats are modified at the beginning, but can be "repaired" to the max. But any bonus is only gained at creation, and will not be in play after that. Meaning that 18/100 - and only that - is attainable as a max. Before items, that is.
In maximised mode an eternal penalty is applied.

And in MAngband we always run maximised mode. So if using the values from the birth information here: http://www.mangband.org/Main/Birth - I can create table like this:

Code: Select all

                       STR     INT     WIS     DEX     CON     CHR
Human       Warrior  18/150   18/80   18/80  18/120  18/120   18/90
            Mage      18/50  18/130  18/100  18/110   18/80  18/110
            Priest    18/90   18/70  18/130   18/90  18/100  18/120
            Rogue    18/120  18/110   18/80  18/130  18/110   18/90
            Ranger   18/120  18/120  18/100  18/110  18/110  18/110
            Paladin  18/130   18/70  18/110  18/100  18/120  18/120

Half-Elf    Warrior  18/140   18/90   18/80  18/130  18/110  18/100
            Mage      18/40  18/140  18/100  18/120   18/70  18/120
            Priest    18/80   18/80  18/130  18/100   18/90  18/130
            Rogue    18/110  18/120   18/80  18/140  18/100  18/100
            Ranger   18/110  18/130  18/100  18/120  18/100  18/120
            Paladin  18/120   18/80  18/110  18/110  18/110  18/130

Elf         Warrior  18/140  18/100   18/90  18/130  18/100  18/100
            Mage      18/40  18/150  18/110  18/120   18/60  18/120
            Priest    18/80   18/90  18/140  18/100   18/80  18/130
            Rogue    18/110  18/130   18/90  18/140   18/90  18/100
            Ranger   18/110  18/140  18/110  18/120   18/90  18/120
            Paladin  18/120   18/90  18/120  18/110  18/100  18/130

Hobbit      Warrior  18/130  18/100   18/90  18/150  18/140  18/100
            Mage      18/30  18/150  18/110  18/140  18/100  18/120
            Priest    18/70   18/90  18/140  18/120  18/120  18/130
            Rogue    18/100  18/130   18/90  18/160  18/130  18/100
            Ranger   18/100  18/140  18/110  18/140  18/130  18/120
            Paladin  18/110   18/90  18/120  18/130  18/140  18/130

Gnome       Warrior  18/140  18/100   18/80  18/140  18/130   18/70
            Mage      18/40  18/150  18/100  18/130   18/90   18/90
            Priest    18/80   18/90  18/130  18/110  18/110  18/100
            Rogue    18/110  18/130   18/80  18/150  18/120   18/70
            Ranger   18/110  18/140  18/100  18/130  18/120   18/90
            Paladin  18/120   18/90  18/110  18/120  18/130  18/100

Dwarf       Warrior  18/170   18/50  18/100  18/100  18/140   18/60
            Mage      18/70  18/100  18/120   18/90  18/100   18/80
            Priest   18/110   18/40  18/150   18/70  18/120   18/90
            Rogue    18/140   18/80  18/100  18/110  18/130   18/60
            Ranger   18/140   18/90  18/120   18/90  18/130   18/80
            Paladin  18/150   18/40  18/130   18/80  18/140   18/90

Half-Orc    Warrior  18/170   18/70   18/80  18/120  18/130   18/50
            Mage      18/70  18/120  18/100  18/110   18/90   18/70
            Priest   18/110   18/60  18/130   18/90  18/110   18/80
            Rogue    18/140  18/100   18/80  18/130  18/120   18/50
            Ranger   18/140  18/110  18/100  18/110  18/120   18/70
            Paladin  18/150   18/60  18/110  18/100  18/130   18/80

Half-Troll  Warrior  18/190   18/40   18/60   18/80  18/150   18/30
            Mage      18/90   18/90   18/80   18/70  18/110   18/50
            Priest   18/130   18/30  18/110   18/50  18/130   18/60
            Rogue    18/160   18/70   18/60   18/90  18/140   18/30
            Ranger   18/160   18/80   18/80   18/70  18/140   18/50
            Paladin  18/170   18/30   18/90   18/60  18/150   18/60

Dunadan     Warrior  18/160  18/100  18/100  18/140  18/150  18/110
            Mage      18/60  18/150  18/120  18/130  18/110  18/130
            Priest   18/100   18/90  18/150  18/110  18/130  18/140
            Rogue    18/130  18/130  18/100  18/150  18/140  18/110
            Ranger   18/130  18/140  18/120  18/130  18/140  18/130
            Paladin  18/140   18/90  18/130  18/120  18/150  18/140

High-Elf    Warrior  18/160  18/110   18/70  18/150  18/130  18/140
            Mage      18/60  18/160   18/90  18/140   18/90  18/160
            Priest   18/100  18/100  18/120  18/120  18/110  18/170
            Rogue    18/130  18/140   18/70  18/160  18/120  18/140
            Ranger   18/130  18/150   18/90  18/140  18/120  18/160
            Paladin  18/140  18/100  18/100  18/130  18/130  18/170

Kobold      Warrior  18/140   18/70   18/80  18/140  18/140   18/70
            Mage      18/40  18/120  18/100  18/130  18/100   18/90
            Priest    18/80   18/60  18/130  18/110  18/120  18/100
            Rogue    18/110  18/100   18/80  18/150  18/130   18/70
            Ranger   18/110  18/110  18/100  18/130  18/130   18/90
            Paladin  18/120   18/60  18/110  18/120  18/140  18/100

Again, this being before any item bonii is applied.

Which would fit with the fact that I chugged down a 40k DEX potion to no avail, being at 18/120 as a human warrior. :)

Jug
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Re: Max stats on race/type?

Post by Jug » Mon 18.08.2008, 16:14

Oh nice job, we shall add that table to the documentation section ;)

Ace
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Re: Max stats on race/type?

Post by Ace » Mon 18.08.2008, 21:34

gnome mages can be stronger (CON) than human mages? Didnt see that coming :)

Allona
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Re: Max stats on race/type?

Post by Allona » Fri 19.12.2008, 04:32

but arnet half elfs ugly as hell? why would they be more charismatic than a Human?

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Re: Max stats on race/type?

Post by Warrior » Fri 19.12.2008, 11:31

Half elf?
Half human, half elf?

Elves are good looking you know.

1+1,5=2,5/2=1.25 you know, allona.
-- Mangband Project Team Member

PowerWyrm
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Re: Max stats on race/type?

Post by PowerWyrm » Fri 19.12.2008, 12:33

Allona wrote:but arnet half elfs ugly as hell? why would they be more charismatic than a Human?
Being ugly or not is subjective...<sarcastic>of course... half elves always look ugly for TROLLS</sarcastic>

Allona
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Re: Max stats on race/type?

Post by Allona » Sun 21.12.2008, 02:53

I'm not a troll, hhhalf elses is stupid they are like human, I'd hate to be inbred with a disgusting race like elf

why isn there half gnome

PowerWyrm
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Re: Max stats on race/type?

Post by PowerWyrm » Mon 22.12.2008, 12:30

Apparently elves and humans can breed together... not gnomes.
However I cannot (and prefer not) imagine how you can get half trolls or half orcs...

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Re: Max stats on race/type?

Post by Ace » Mon 22.12.2008, 19:37

experiments :)

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