Strategy against bad moves

Best practices and optimistic theories.
PowerWyrm
Balrog
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun 27.11.2005, 15:57

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by PowerWyrm » Thu 05.02.2009, 12:33

Surely not meteor... at level 45, meteor does something like 220 dam with 0% fail, so 20 meteors would have killed the wyrm.
Let's do a rough calculation...
- the great wyrm of law breathes shards twice for 579 dam (this suppose Morgoth was unharmed, which seems to be the case); let's suppose that's an average breath of 290 dam
- shard breath is supposed to do monster hp / 6, capped at 400, then multiplied by 6/(6+d6) if resisted, which was the case (law dragon scale mail); let's suppose an average for the two breaths (average d6 = 3.5), which does 290 * (6 + 3.5) / 6 = 460 dam, way over the 400 dam cap; breath was done at full power, meaning that the wyrm had over 2400 hps left
- a great wyrm of law starts with 4500 hps; the max dam the spell could have done is (4500 - 2400) / 20... something around 100 dam; this doesn't include the hps the wyrm regenerated during those 20 turns (which is probably negligible)
- at level 45, the following spells do roughly 100 dam: Explosion, Acid Ball, Fire Ball; Rend Soul does slightly more (120 against evil); Ice Storm, Meteor Swarm, Chaos Strike deal too much damage; of course, it could have been one of the lower level spells: Shock Wave, Cloudkill, Frost Ball, Acid/Fire/Frost/Lightning Bolt... or even Magic Missile

PowerWyrm
Balrog
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun 27.11.2005, 15:57

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by PowerWyrm » Tue 10.02.2009, 12:07

You sense the presence of creatures!
The Time hound breathes time.
You feel life has clocked back.
The Time hound breathes time.
You're not as powerful as you used to be...
The Time hound breathes time.
You feel life has clocked back.
The Time hound breathes time.
You feel life has clocked back.
The Time hound breathes time.
You're not as agile as you used to be...
The Time hound breathes time.
You feel life has clocked back.
The Time hound breathes time.
You feel life has clocked back.
The Time hound breathes time.
You're not as strong as you used to be...
The Time hound breathes time.
You feel life has clocked back.
You die.
Be very careful when using detect spells deep in the dungeon. Detect spells freeze the main screen indefinitely (they wait for the player to press a key)... if monsters are around, you could find your character dead when you press a key to remove this frozen state.

PowerWyrm
Balrog
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun 27.11.2005, 15:57

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by PowerWyrm » Wed 11.02.2009, 12:37

You hit Vecna, the Emperor Lich.
The Master lich stares deep into your eyes!
You are unaffected!
The Archlich magically summons a hellish adversary!
You do not have enough mana.
You hit Vecna, the Emperor Lich.
You hit Vecna, the Emperor Lich.
You hit Vecna, the Emperor Lich.
You miss Vecna, the Emperor Lich.
You hit Vecna, the Emperor Lich.
The Master lich misses you.
The Master lich misses you.
The Master lich misses you.
The Master lich misses you.
The Black reaver hits you.
The Black reaver hits you.
You die.
A fight in the open with Vecna and escort?
Lungorthin, the Balrog of White Fire touches you.
Energy drains from your pack!
The Pit Fiend breathes chaos.
You hit the Pit Fiend.
It was a good hit!
You hit the Pit Fiend.
You hit the Pit Fiend.
You hit the Pit Fiend.
It was a superb hit!
You miss the Pit Fiend.
The Pit Fiend claws you.
You are enveloped in flames!
The Pit Fiend misses you.
The Pit Fiend misses you.
The Pit Fiend misses you.
The Pit Fiend breathes gas.
You die.
And Lungorthin?
Were those two summoned? If yes, it's easy to avoid it by casting detect invisible (for Qs) or detect traps with great paranoia. If no, then you asked for death...

PowerWyrm
Balrog
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun 27.11.2005, 15:57

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by PowerWyrm » Thu 12.02.2009, 12:41

Morgoth, Lord of Darkness invokes a mana storm.
The staff has no charges left.
The staff has no charges left.
Morgoth, Lord of Darkness magically summons ancient dragons!
You hit the Great Wyrm of Chaos.
You hit the Great Wyrm of Chaos.
You miss the Great Wyrm of Chaos.
The Ancient gold dragon claws you.
You die.
Sounds like a panic death... *destruction* would have been the best solution here.
Note that the new ESP makes dangerous to stay in big rooms... if you cannot ESP Morgoth before he's in LOS, you're in big trouble.

PowerWyrm
Balrog
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Joined: Sun 27.11.2005, 15:57

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by PowerWyrm » Thu 12.02.2009, 12:52

From Karis:
You hear a door burst open!
You hear a door burst open!
You hear a door burst open!
You feel life return to your body.
You see The Ring of Power 'The One Ring' (+15,+15) (+5) {cursed}.
You have The Ring of Power 'The One Ring' (+15,+15) (+5) {cursed} (a).
The Great Wyrm of Law breathes shards.
You have been given a deep gash.
The Great Wyrm of Law casts a fearful illusion.
You refuse to be frightened.
The Great Wyrm of Law casts a fearful illusion.
You refuse to be frightened.
The Great Wyrm of Law casts a spell, burning your eyes!
You resist the effects!
The Great Wyrm of Law magically summons ancient dragons!
Glaurung, Father of the Dragons breathes fire.
You die.
And from Induriel:
The Great Wyrm of Law claws you.
The Great Wyrm of Law claws you.
The Great Wyrm of Law misses you.
The Great Wyrm of Law bites you.
The Dracolich is no longer stunned.
Glaurung, Father of the Dragons breathes gas.
You die.
Rescues can sometimes be very tricky. "You hear a door burst open!" should always trigger a paranoid response... What could be the source of the message? A vortex? (those have a very broad vision range, and love to crush the gear of the poor dead players) A dangerous monster? Here having to stay in a big room with ESP range barely covering the room is too dangerous when doing a rescue without taking some precaution: with a mage, always mass banish while standing in the room... this should take care of anything near; if possible, put doors outside of the room... if something opens the door, re-cast mass banish to get rid of it. Sometimes it can be even deadlier... uniques like Maeglin (or Morgoth) love disturbing rescues when they are on the level, and with their ability to eat the walls, it's hard to do the rescue safely. In this case, the best is to teleport them away (quickly), chase them and cast *destruction*.

schroeder
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat 14.06.2008, 04:23
Location: Somewhere in Illinois in the USA

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by schroeder » Fri 13.02.2009, 10:59

I almost feel bad doing this, simply because of the pain of losing to morgy, but i think i must, in case he made the mistake i think he did.
Induriel's last moments wrote:You feel very good.
You have 25 Potions of *Healing* {@q1}.
You miss Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
You miss Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
Morgoth, Lord of Darkness casts a mana bolt.
You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
You miss Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
Morgoth, Lord of Darkness invokes a mana storm.
You die.
I was quite sad to see this. He had the dreamgear. I then look at his health, and see he had 886, and -32 after the mana storm. It seamed like he had a prety low amount of HP for fighting morgoth, so it looked like he didn't cast buffs on himself. Buffs like heroism and berserk strength at least. Both of these give 20hp. He would have then had 8hp after the mana storm, allowing him to live, if he had *heal*'d right after... On top of this, he had 14hp less than the average lvl 50 high elf mage. This loss just makes me sad, especially since it may have been avoided by remembering to spam every buff possible before fighting morgoth. Personally, if i don't have the spells, i will try to quaff 99 heroism pots, 99 berserk pots, read 99 scrolls of holy prayer, and quaff 99 potions of speed before starting the fight. It may be paranoid, but better to paranoid than dead.
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
My Mangband videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Schroederband

Ace
Crystal Ooze
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri 15.02.2008, 12:50

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by Ace » Fri 13.02.2009, 16:25

does protection from evil help against morgoth too? If so an attack can also be completely repelled....

Ashi
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun 10.11.2002, 19:58

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by Ashi » Fri 13.02.2009, 18:33

That is pretty unfortunate, being double casted by morgoth usually means instant death. He could have won that fight easily, since was using the same vault as me but with better gear and more HP.

I used 5 heroism and berserk potions, which is also pretty paranoid as you only really need 1. I also used one pfe scroll, which only repels monsters below a certain level so it won't work against morg, but it can help if he summons some minions into melee range.

schroeder
Giant Mottled Ant Lion
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat 14.06.2008, 04:23
Location: Somewhere in Illinois in the USA

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by schroeder » Sat 14.02.2009, 07:05

Prosper's Death scene wrote: You are unaffected!
The 11-headed hydra casts a plasma bolt.
The Beholder hive-mother casts a nether bolt.
The Aether hound breathes force.
The Lesser titan magically summons monsters!
You hit the Great Bile Wyrm.
You hit the Great Bile Wyrm.
You hit the Great Bile Wyrm.
You miss the Great Bile Wyrm.
You miss the Great Bile Wyrm.
You hit the Great Bile Wyrm.
The Mature green dragon breathes gas.
The Death knight points at you, incanting terribly!
You resist the effects!
The Mature red dragon breathes fire.
Some of your Scrolls of Banishment {!kdsv} (k) were destroyed!
One of your Scrolls of Mass Banishment {@r1 !kdsv} (l) was destroyed!
Your Staff of Speed (3 charges) {@u4 !kdsv} (n) was destroyed!
The Neekerbreeker makes a high pitched shriek.
You feel a sudden stirring nearby!
The Undead beholder magically summons an undead adversary!
Akhorahil the Blind gestures in shadow.
Darkness surrounds you.
The Beholder hive-mother tries to blank your mind.
You resist the effects!
You miss the Great Bile Wyrm.
You miss the Great Bile Wyrm.
You hit the Great Bile Wyrm.
You hit the Great Bile Wyrm.
You hit the Great Bile Wyrm.
You miss the Great Bile Wyrm.
The Great Bile Wyrm is no longer stunned.
The Great Bile Wyrm misses you.
The Great Bile Wyrm claws you.
The Great Bile Wyrm bites you.
You are covered in acid!
Your Golden Crown of Gondor is unaffected!
The Great Bile Wyrm bites you.
You are covered in acid!
Your Power Dragon Scale Mail is unaffected!
Some of your Scrolls of Mass Banishment {@r1 !kdsv} (l) were destroyed!
The Dread misses you.
The Dread misses you.
The Dread misses you.
The Lesser titan commands you to return.
The Crystal drake casts a fearful illusion.
You refuse to be frightened.
The Forest troll misses you.
The Forest troll misses you.
The Forest troll misses you.
The Mature white dragon casts a fearful illusion.
You refuse to be frightened.
You miss the Lesser titan.
You hit the Lesser titan.
You hit the Lesser titan.
You hit the Lesser titan.
You miss the Lesser titan.
You hit the Lesser titan.
The Ancient gold dragon breathes sound.
You die.
This death may seam quite strange, not healing or anything, but the reason is clear. He was doing the quest in the wilderness. Warrior's quest. He had just opened up a new aria and killed the uniques in it. Then, he walked into the open slot and, i believe he said, and stoped his video. While he did this, he was in line of sight of a yellow s. He didn't see it though. He had his esp off, since it was on his weapon (this can be dangerous. If you are going to swap your wepapon for esp, then you need to make *sure* you are always safe where you are). Personally, at high lvls, i would put esp nearly ANYWHERE else. In this case, i'd have an esp cloak. That way, you usually don't need to take it off. Forgetting to put esp back on after a fight can be deadly...
Anything worth being done, is worth being overdone.
My Mangband videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Schroederband

Prosper
Human Zombie
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun 30.11.2008, 00:17
Location: Canada

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by Prosper » Mon 16.02.2009, 01:33

Actually my death is self explained through the video I posted in the correct thread. I knew druj was there but since It wasnt in MY line of sight I thought where I was he couldn't see me. As you told me earlier I should have banished it. Judgement error from me I was just about to walk inthe vault and kill the rest. I was just taking my time to make sure every buff was ok before heading inside.

By looking at the video frame by frame we can see that I have been teleported and that within the time of 1 frame there has been like several pages of messages.

Look up the Challenge quest thread for video.

PowerWyrm
Balrog
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun 27.11.2005, 15:57

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by PowerWyrm » Mon 16.02.2009, 12:47

Azriel, Angel of Death casts a nether bolt.
You feel your life draining away!
You hit Azriel, Angel of Death.
You miss Azriel, Angel of Death.
You hit Azriel, Angel of Death.
You hit Azriel, Angel of Death.
You hit Azriel, Angel of Death.
Azriel, Angel of Death misses you.
Azriel, Angel of Death misses you.
Azriel, Angel of Death hits you.
Azriel, Angel of Death hits you.
You failed to concentrate hard enough!
You feel very good.
You feel very good.
Azriel, Angel of Death breathes nether.
You feel your life draining away!
You die.
A common mistake. Never fight uniques that breathe something without the resistance to that something (here nether). Uniques have a huge amount of hps which means that each breath will be at full power for almost the whole fight.

serina
Crystal Ooze
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat 15.09.2007, 18:42

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by serina » Mon 16.02.2009, 22:02

A good story about how resisting chaos can still be extremely deadly...

Max Hit Points 881
Cur Hit Points -78

It magically summons a hellish adversary!
It blinks away.
The Pit Fiend breathes chaos.
The Pit Fiend breathes chaos.
You die.


That's usually faster than most people react. With bad luck on the rolls even with resistance, you shouldn't fight these monsters ever, in my book. Risk vs reward has a really really really bad outcome.

Same with Jabberwocks, Great wyrms of balance, chaos and many colours. They simply hurt too much with bad luck. At least 1 time in 100, you will have bad luck.

ZAL

PowerWyrm
Balrog
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun 27.11.2005, 15:57

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by PowerWyrm » Tue 17.02.2009, 12:35

The Master quylthulg magically summons animals.
The Uruk wakes up.
The Mystic magically summons spiders.
You hit the Wereworm.
You hit the Wereworm.
You miss the Wereworm.
You hit the Wereworm.
You hit the Wereworm.
The Drolem fires a missile.
You unstack your staff.
You have 0 charges remaining.
The Nether hound breathes nether.
The Nether hound breathes nether.
The Aether hound breathes confusion.
The Aether hound breathes nether.
The Aether hound breathes lightning.
The Nether hound breathes nether.
The Aether hound breathes nether.
The Aether hound breathes nether.
You die.
Castle Death is a well named vault... the big room on the right will almost always kill you if you try to enter that vault without banishing everything in that room first. There's only one entrance to the vault and when walking that long corridor you will be in LOS of all monsters in that room. Choose your doom: summons, tele-to...

Michailski
Giant Spotted Rat
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat 14.02.2009, 18:00

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by Michailski » Thu 19.02.2009, 23:33

...I dont know what the hell "save draft" is but it killed my nice answere. =/ [Edit] Tny Ace. Found it. Edit to is better than a doublepost imho. =)
PowerWyrm wrote:
Azriel, Angel of Death casts a nether bolt.
You feel your life draining away!
...
You die.
A common mistake. Never fight uniques that breathe something without the resistance to that something (here nether). Uniques have a huge amount of hps which means that each breath will be at full power for almost the whole fight.
Oh.. That was my last Speedtrip. =)

Yep, the missed resist was a prob. but the real fault was to fight such an enemy at a low depth. Jordan was a 3 in a sec at this level with all resists. This Char was a lucky (finding good stuff) One and with a simple hit at the tele other button he would be a level 50 now.

The Chardump of my newest Speedtrip is allready up. That was really stupid. Got a *Dest* Staff specially for the dive (for 20k) and instead using the Staff i died while trying to tele away (without SP).

Almost of my deaths are my own fault. The knowlege about open the hope to learn. =)
Last edited by Michailski on Fri 20.02.2009, 12:45, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8uAvMey ... r_embedded Three little pigs
My english isnt bad. I am ahead of time. I use the spelling reform of the english language starting 2010.

Ace
Crystal Ooze
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri 15.02.2008, 12:50

Re: Strategy against bad moves

Post by Ace » Fri 20.02.2009, 11:36

Click on User Control Panal -> Manage Drafts
There your text should be :)

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