Player vs. Player Play Examined

[Berendol]

I think this might be an interesting read for anyone with some extra free time.

Slashdot article "Player vs. Player Play Examined"

You are welcome to discuss the issue here if you want to discuss it with your MAngband peers.

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

I read this article yesterday, pointed, and laughed.

Come ON.

There ARE some people who exist merely to mess with other people, but, for the most part, those of us who do pkill do it for (usually) very good reasons...we don't like you, we want your gear, or you've offended us.  I honestly can't remember the last time I hosed someone without a reason.  Now, granted, I don't always ANNOUNCE the reason, but I USUALLY have a reason of some sort...and no, it's not "I don't like the cut of your jib."

I think that's a big part of the underlying issues with whiners who get pkilled.  They don't know why (or they don't want to admit they know), and thus complain and whine because they thought it was random.

I think pkilling should be completely unrestricted.  If you wanna kill someone, do it to it.  If you don't wanna be killed, change your computer name, change how you play, and don't talk to anyone until you're big enough to trade blows.  More often than not people will slip up and let everyone know they're someone else, at which point the pkillers swoop back down onto them.

Kill!  Gore!  SLAY!

[Fink]

The article seemed to be focused more on conventional commercial MMORPG's. And, funnily, the reasons you give as being why you commonly pk is what the article would call the definition of a griefer

[Berendol]

I think the majority of griefers pkill because newbies offend them for the sole reason that they are newbies. That fits in perfectly with your reasons, Bigjuan, but it doesn't really work out so well in my head. I don't think you operate that way, though.

I have never supported pkilling for the purpose of taking gear, because that's just stealing plus murder. Pretty much, it's an online version of a schoolyard bully beating you up and taking your lunch money. It doesn't help anybody because in the long run, if that person gets bigger than you, then you're toast. (Not to be confused with the player "Toast.") To describe it another way, it forces one to violence with regard to one individual: either become the punching bag, or make the other guy your punching bag. I, and hundreds of thousands of other online gamers, just don't enjoy games where that is possible without restriction. But that is the only one of your reasons I have any problems with.

Question: Were there an option to ignore people, or some simple method, do you think you would find yourself pkilling less?

I believe that most of the "We don't like you" and "you've offended us" cases, related or not, would be avoided with such an option. Unfortunately, there is no mechanism in the game for this. However! There can be one, if someone would take the large amount of time required to make such a feature. Basically, why not write a pseudo-IRC server and make the client use that instead? I've written one in perl using POE in about 200 lines, so I know that part isn't so bad.

Ugly truth coming up... We just don't have the credit card requirement here, and there is no means within the game server to ban an individual, so there is no real control over problematic players. Sure, you can keep looking for speech patterns, similar passwords, similar player names, and such; then you can delete savefiles routinely. But that doesn't stop the person from logging in and annoying everyone.

[Big_Juan_Teh_Furby]

Honestly, no, I wouldn't...I'd kill just as much as I do now.

Although it WOULD be nice to be able to ignore someone...like, for example, someone that starts up a level 1 character and bitches and moans.  Killing it won't do any real good, yet there's no other way to deal with it.

Killing newbies isn't good.  If they're TRULY a newbie I USALLY go out of my way to avoid them, but once in awhile they do get crushed.  If I find that I HAVE killed a true newbie, I often will do something to help them back...give them back their gear, xp them for awhile, talk to them, etc.  However, level is irrelevant to me if it's NOT a newbie...ie if Death starts a new character and it's level 1, it's not a newbie, it's gonna die.

(Within the pre-set rules, that is)

I think that pkilling is a much needed evil.  When it becomes rampant it's a problem, but if it's justified, it's good.  The flip side is to outlaw all pkilling and require everyone to complain to the maintainer every time, which will annoy the admin.  I much prefer to take the law into my own hands, so to speak.