Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

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Warrior
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Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by Warrior » Thu 14.12.2006, 13:48

I've been studying the mangband ladder (http://www.mangband.org/ladder.txt) and here are some interesting facts:

Active characters (logged in sometime during the last 3 calendar months):

Top 100:

34 characters last played in December.
11 characters last played in November.
12 characters last played in October.

That means 57 of the top 100 characters on the ladder can be considered "active".

The total number of characters the last 3 months: 212.
Not counting the 57 "active" top players, that means we've had roughly 50 new characters a month lately. Of course, many of those are the same player but I wouldn't be surprised if we have at least 10, maybe up to 20-30 unique newcomers each month.

The reason for me posting this is not only because its interesting to see how mangband is doing but also because we should finally agree on some way to deal with inactive characters.

I have given it some thought and suggest the following.

Housed artifacts: reset after 30 days of inactivity.
If you wanna house an artifact (for whatever reasons) you should at least be playing the game.

Wielded/in inventory artifacts: reset after 90 days of inactivity.
If you can't play for 3 months the artifact should be reset and available for others.

Houses: reset after 180 days of inactivity.
If you can't find the time to play at least once in 6 months your houses should be reset.

So, which players aren't playing anymore?

Top 10:      Both characters have artifacts stored in their houses plus those equipped.


[table][tr] [td][center] Place:[/center][/td] [td][center] Player Name:[/center][/td] [td][center] Lv:[/center][/td] [td][center] MDL:[/center][/td] [td][center] State:[/center][/td] [td][center] Secret Hidden Pw:[/center][/td] [td][center] F:[/center][/td] [td][center] Worth(~):[/center][/td] [td][center] Experience:[/center][/td] [td][center] Score(~):[/center][/td] [td][center] Rate:[/center][/td] [td][center] Last Played:[/center][/td][/tr][tr] [td][center] [/center][/td][/tr]
[tr] [td][right] 1[/right][/td] [td][center] Ernie[/center][/td] [td][right] 50[/right][/td] [td][right] 127[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right] H[/right][/td] [td][right] 00359399863[/right][/td] [td][right] 00033033088[/right][/td] [td][right] 00392432951[/right][/td] [td][right] 00150[/right][/td] [td][right] Wed Aug 30 00:57:48 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 5[/right][/td] [td][center] Ice[/center][/td] [td][right] 50[/right][/td] [td][right] 127[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right] H[/right][/td] [td][right] 00091062429[/right][/td] [td][right] 00011252308[/right][/td] [td][right] 00102314737[/right][/td] [td][right] 00100[/right][/td] [td][right] Mon Jul 17 02:26:42 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] [/right][/td][/tr][/table]

Top 20: Also here we see artifacts all over. Zeb is level 47 and a unique character, as is Stealth, but the rest are only multi's of Angus/Bigjuan. All more than 6 months old.

[table][tr] [td][right] 13[/right][/td] [td][right] Zeb[/right][/td] [td][right] 47[/right][/td] [td][right] 080[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right] W[/right][/td] [td][right] 00007258116[/right][/td] [td][right] 00004687837[/right][/td] [td][right] 00011945953[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000[/right][/td] [td][right] Tue Mar 14 16:39:42 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 15[/right][/td] [td][right] Furby[/right][/td] [td][right] 44[/right][/td] [td][right] 127[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right] W[/right][/td] [td][right] 00005022164[/right][/td] [td][right] 00005402240[/right][/td] [td][right] 00010424404[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000[/right][/td] [td][right] Sat Jun 10 10:48:51 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 16[/right][/td] [td][right] Stealth[/right][/td] [td][right] 40[/right][/td] [td][right] 049[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right] W[/right][/td] [td][right] 00006639651[/right][/td] [td][right] 00002439109[/right][/td] [td][right] 00009078760[/right][/td] [td][right] 00080[/right][/td] [td][right] Tue Feb  7 07:01:12 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 17[/right][/td] [td][right] Bigjuan[/right][/td] [td][right] 44[/right][/td] [td][right] 098[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right] K[/right][/td] [td][right] 00005628225[/right][/td] [td][right] 00002606321[/right][/td] [td][right] 00008234546[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000[/right][/td] [td][right] Wed May 10 21:13:46 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 18[/right][/td] [td][right] Miyamoto[/right][/td] [td][right] 44[/right][/td] [td][right] 062[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right] W[/right][/td] [td][right] 00004224486[/right][/td] [td][right] 00002710676[/right][/td] [td][right] 00006935162[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000[/right][/td] [td][right] Sun Apr  2 22:23:51 2006[/right][/td][/tr][/table]

Top 50:      Mostly unique characters of players no longer around, as far as I know.

[table][tr] [td][right] 24[/right][/td] [td][right] Me[/right][/td] [td][right] 42[/right][/td] [td][right] 045[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right] H[/right][/td] [td][right] 00002081565[/right][/td] [td][right] 00001690722[/right][/td] [td][right] 00003772287[/right][/td] [td][right] 00042[/right][/td] [td][right] Mon Jun 26 01:16:50 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 30[/right][/td] [td][right] Gamit II[/right][/td] [td][right] 33[/right][/td] [td][right] 040[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right]  [/right][/td] [td][right] 00001994192[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000268839[/right][/td] [td][right] 00002263031[/right][/td] [td][right] 00198[/right][/td] [td][right] Sat Jun 17 20:28:47 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 32[/right][/td] [td][right] Delvmar[/right][/td] [td][right] 36[/right][/td] [td][right] 042[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right]  [/right][/td] [td][right] 00001359149[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000774558[/right][/td] [td][right] 00002133707[/right][/td] [td][right] 00036[/right][/td] [td][right] Fri Aug  4 02:41:19 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 34[/right][/td] [td][right] Corrus[/right][/td] [td][right] 31[/right][/td] [td][right] 028[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right] K[/right][/td] [td][right] 00001334665[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000127720[/right][/td] [td][right] 00001462385[/right][/td] [td][right] 00403[/right][/td] [td][right] Mon May  1 02:42:18 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 35[/right][/td] [td][right] MunkYBoY[/right][/td] [td][right] 36[/right][/td] [td][right] 036[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right]  [/right][/td] [td][right] 00000865793[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000584533[/right][/td] [td][right] 00001450326[/right][/td] [td][right] 00036[/right][/td] [td][right] Wed Jun 14 16:20:58 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 37[/right][/td] [td][right] Sanjuro[/right][/td] [td][right] 35[/right][/td] [td][right] 041[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right]  [/right][/td] [td][right] 00000658585[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000708475[/right][/td] [td][right] 00001367060[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000[/right][/td] [td][right] Fri Jul  7 22:42:45 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 42[/right][/td] [td][right] BitShifter[/right][/td] [td][right] 29[/right][/td] [td][right] 029[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right]  [/right][/td] [td][right] 00000576869[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000089209[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000666078[/right][/td] [td][right] 00232[/right][/td] [td][right] Sun Aug  6 05:02:08 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 44[/right][/td] [td][right] Ncactus[/right][/td] [td][right] 27[/right][/td] [td][right] 021[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right]  [/right][/td] [td][right] 00000438616[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000069102[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000507718[/right][/td] [td][right] 00297[/right][/td] [td][right] Tue Sep 26 18:42:11 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 45[/right][/td] [td][right] Elviera[/right][/td] [td][right] 28[/right][/td] [td][right] 025[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right]  [/right][/td] [td][right] 00000358151[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000097716[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000455867[/right][/td] [td][right] 00140[/right][/td] [td][right] Fri Sep 22 01:18:50 2006[/right][/td][/tr][tr] [td][right] 47[/right][/td] [td][right] Frostbite[/right][/td] [td][right] 27[/right][/td] [td][right] 021[/right][/td] [td][right] Alive[/right][/td] [td][right] ****************[/right][/td] [td][right]  [/right][/td] [td][right] 00000363816[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000039984[/right][/td] [td][right] 00000403800[/right][/td] [td][right] 00432[/right][/td] [td][right] Mon Sep 18 18:29:35 2006[/right][/td][/tr][/table]


Since the current mangband.org server (might) either be reset or die on it's own due to old age this isn't just yet another suggestion to Crimson: Do this/fix this! - But instead I would like a vote:

  • A: Reset housed artifacts after 30 days and wielded/carried artifacts after 90, but don't reset houses.
  • B: Reset artifacts after 30/90 days and houses after 180 days.
  • C: Leave artifacts/houses of long time inactive players alone.
  • D: Other. Longer/shorter time.
I hope as many as possible will vote.

- Warrior
-- Mangband Project Team Member

Avenger
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by Avenger » Fri 15.12.2006, 09:50

B seems like the best plan to me, I've always thought it would be nice to find an art other than Nimthanc once in awhile.
As for houses, there aren't very many available, so reseting them would be a plus in my opinion.
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Murdin
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by Murdin » Fri 15.12.2006, 14:20

I'm torn on this between A and B. We have a definate shortage of decent houses, but the idea behind a house is long-term storage... either way, arts definately need a reset timer.

Well, 6 months is pretty long-term. It's like maintaining a lease, except you don't have to pay anything... so, B I guess.
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grisu
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by grisu » Fri 15.12.2006, 19:12

b

Farynn
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by Farynn » Fri 15.12.2006, 21:10

a

sbluen
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by sbluen » Fri 15.12.2006, 22:59

d. Basicly b and delete inactive level one characters after 180 days so that the ladder stays short.

Huma
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by Huma » Fri 15.12.2006, 22:59

B i think A is too short term

Narchan
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by Narchan » Sat 16.12.2006, 11:50

A

While there is a shortage of houses, reseting I think would be a bit much.  Taking a long break fro MAngband and coming back to find you have nothing other than what your char had in his inv/eq would, I think, be a deterent to getting back into the game.  As for reseting artifacts, absolutely.  Since they are unique items in a multiplayer game, I think owning them is a privilege reserved for active players.
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Murdin
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by Murdin » Mon 18.12.2006, 12:48

Even taking a long break, is it so much to ask that you log in every 6 months to keep your house?

Really, we're only asking you log in twice a year here. Not a real steep request.
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Warrior
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by Warrior » Tue 19.12.2006, 10:35

B

(But in a perfect world, if I could decide it would be like this:

D:
  • Artifacts in houses disappear after 7 days.
  • Artifacts in inventory/equipped disappear after 30 days
  • Town houses reset after 90 days
  • Wilderness houses reset after 120 days
And empty houses /houses with an average value pr space of less than a certain amount (say 100/500/1000) or something will be reset faster. Annoying having to wait 6 months for a house thats NEVER been used or only put one worthless item into... )
-- Mangband Project Team Member

Ashi
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by Ashi » Tue 19.12.2006, 20:06

What's to stop a person from logging in and out once every few months to circumvent this?

sbluen
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by sbluen » Tue 19.12.2006, 20:36

That person would have to show that he hasn't forgotten about mangband by logging in. Even if he is automatically reminded to do that, his houses will still be reset once he is unable to use his computer.

Warrior
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by Warrior » Tue 19.12.2006, 21:40

What I'm trying to do with this vote is to first of all find out how people feel about it, it's as simple as that.

Quite obviously people will log in now and then to avoid the whole problem but the discussion about how to deal with inactive player has to begin somewhere.

I don't think Crimson will be into this idea at all, but that doesn't make the discussion any less important.

If most players agree that artifacts and houses of inactive players should be reset after a certain time, for the benefit of the community, this vote would make it easier for any server admin to add this to the server rules.
-- Mangband Project Team Member

Berendol
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Re: Vote: Reset artifacts/houses

Post by Berendol » Wed 20.12.2006, 03:58

It may not be so much that your idea is unpalatable, but rather that it's impossible to track how long an artifact has sat in a house.

When we're talking about clearing 'unused' owned houses, it's simple enough to check against the mtime of someone's savefile, as part of a daily audit. I could have easily extended Dynamo to do such a task.

However there is no code in the game that indicates any kind of 'when it was dropped here'. The data structure just isn't there, plain and simple. Someone needs to code that, which will break savefile compatibility. Therefore thorough testing is important, and a complete conversion of all existing savefiles is necessary unless a full server reset is enacted (which seems unnecessary.) That being said, I'm all for breaking savefile compatibility if it makes the game better! It would potentially be as simple as adding a 'drop timestamp', which would reflect standard UNIX time. (click this link for more information on that) Then someone must write some fairly trivial code to pack and unpack time_t structures from the datafiles. This solution, while probably ideal, greatly increases the storage footprint of items. I'd much rather see a time_t than a game turn indicator, since real time progresses much more predictably than game time!

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment... What's to stop players from stashing artifacts at insane depths in the wilderness that only they are aware of? I know of several players (who shall remain nameless) who do such things to their own great benefit. So, really, we'd have to audit ALL artifacts for their drop time. Sounds good to me.

Shameless plug: Of course, resetting artifacts isn't necessary if you do away with artifacts  ::)
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