PK Vote

General discussion about the game. Pull up a stool and tell us your tale!
Warrior
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PK Vote

Post by Warrior » Sun 26.02.2006, 16:51

People can say what they want about pk'ing and lots has been said, indeed - but I seriously think it should be clarified exactly how the forum members here feel about it.

May I suggest a vote?
  • A: No PK
  • B: Restricted PK (by level/other)
  • C: Free PK


I hope as many as possible express their opinion on this.

- Warrior/Zaphod
-- Mangband Project Team Member

Big_Juan_Teh_Furby
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Big_Juan_Teh_Furby » Sun 26.02.2006, 17:28

C.  Free pkilling.  Any time, anywhere, any reason.
When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can turn into deadly projectiles.

Narchan
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Narchan » Sun 26.02.2006, 17:41

B. Restricted PK


Loosely restricted though, I think no PKing to town would be enough, possibly no PKing of player ghosts...although if the town was safe, it wouldn't really be necessary to restrict player ghost PKing.
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Warrior
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Warrior » Sun 26.02.2006, 17:50

A. No PK.

I think there should be a seperate server for those who wants to pk. I would play on both. It'd add to the total experience of the game.

Mangband.org is the official server for the game and new players as well as normal peaceful players shouldn't have to worry about getting pk'd there.
-- Mangband Project Team Member

Crimson
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Crimson » Sun 26.02.2006, 18:22

B) Restrictive PK.


  Murder is a fact of life, and some version of PK exists in every MMORPG (and MORPG) that I've played.  

I do agree it's time to put some software limits on the damage inflicted by it, unless it's a mutual-combat scenario.

However, and mark my words on this, Even given controls, players are clever enough to find ways around them.
Are you not entertained?
Is this not what you came here for?

-- Maximus Decimus Meridias, The Gladiator

Anyar
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Anyar » Sun 26.02.2006, 18:36

Restricted PK. I think it should be loose, but strict enough to stop griefers from terrorizing the population.

Murdin
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Murdin » Sun 26.02.2006, 19:00

B
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...@+;...# Sigh.
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Berendol
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Berendol » Sun 26.02.2006, 19:01

B: Restricted PK

You all know my stance on the issue and also my proposed solution.
By appreciation, we make excellence in others our own property. (Voltaire)

Branmuffin
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Branmuffin » Sun 26.02.2006, 19:05

B) Restricted PK

I see it similar to Crimson and also to Warrior.  Murder is a fact of life.  So are consequences.  I think that while no PKilling in town and no pkilling ghosts are good rules, so are consequences for breaking the rules.  I don't mind the aspect of murder for gear in the game, but I think there's no way to restrict someone's reasoning.  Certainly, a lvl 45 character would have little use of a lvl 25 character's gear, but even if they are close in lvl, who's to say they had a legitimate reason?  You would have to take the pkiller's word for it, and I don't think that's a good way to operate.  If there where a way to logisticly do that, I would say "yeah, leave it open", but there's too much room for deception to make this operable.  I, like Warrior, would likely operate characters on 2 servers, which, by the way, if someone wants to help me with the code, I would be more than happy to host a non-pvp game.

CrApHeR
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Re: PK Vote

Post by CrApHeR » Sun 26.02.2006, 19:28

A: No PK

I this the same that Zaphod/Warrior
Two servers,
- Free/Restrictive PK server
- No PK server

The same computer can run both servers in differents ports.
-*-*-*- Argentinian team working for mangband -*-*-*-
We haven't access to mangband, but we are working for it...
-*-*-*- Argentinian team working for mangband -*-*-*-

Domino
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Domino » Sun 26.02.2006, 20:20

B. Restricted PK.

I've always thought that getting shafted (litterally shot to death) while in a store was the lamest of the lame ways to die in Mangband.

That being said I feel that anything outside of town should be free reign.

However I'm open to other suggestions to make the game more friendly to new players.

Maybe in the interests of promoting new players restrict pkilling in the first 1000' to +/- 5 player levels?
King of the Hill Baby!

Branmuffin
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Branmuffin » Sun 26.02.2006, 21:20

I had another thought..also no killing in town or surrounding wilderness...such as the ones that have houses. I like the premise of no pkilling for the 1st 1000 ft, but I think that might keep people from venturing down.

You aren't allowed to drop things until you have a certain amount of XP, and have to attain a certain level to learn spells, use items and such, how about you aren't allowed to pkill untill you get a certain amount of XP and limit it to a +\- amount of your charlvl?....low level characters could beat up the same and high level chars couldn't touch less experienced people.  This would also keep people from creating new characters to kill for their gear when they themselves are new (character farming).
Equal risk for equal rewards.

I see it like this...
you are under lvl 5...you can't pkill.
you are lvl 5-10.....you can pkill anyone +/- 1 level of you.
you are lvl 10-20...you can pkill anyone +/- 2 levels of you.
you are lvl 20-30...you can pkill anyone +/- 3 levels of you.
you are lvl 30-40...you can pkill anyone +/- 4 levels of you.
you are lvl 40-50...you can pkill anyone +/- 5 levels of you.

You can't pkill in town or any wilderness map that has houses.
You can't pkill a ghost.  I would even restrict it to where the only interaction you can have with a ghost is resurrecting them.  Ghosts, while they have undead powers and can supposedly fight with critters, can't go down stairs and explore the dungeon further, and so are basically non-characters for that time.  They carry nothing to be killed for and give no experience, so they should not be of any interest for pkilling purposes.

You might consider what the /hostile flag on the character's icon and name in the player list.  I think some warning to people when they are being targetted would be appreciated as well.  Maybe color them in the player list a certain way, put a distictive warning message in the chat window stating something such as "Pkiller-person has expressed hostility towards you" and possibly change the map icon of the character who is hostile to a certain color, maybe flashing like a multi-hued.  I know I get confused in town about who is who....(so many red @ symbols....)

Fink
Ancient MultiHued Dragon
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Fink » Sun 26.02.2006, 21:45

I addhere to Branmuffin option
otherwise NO PK

A very restrictive PK or no PK at all.

Avenger
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Avenger » Sun 26.02.2006, 22:12

I agree with Narchan's opinion on restricted pk, but I would also advocate a series of servers with different pk limits. For example a new player friendly server with no pking allowed, a limited pk server, with safe town and ghosts, a free pk server, like mangband.org is now, and a pk encouraged server such as the one Bigjuan and Angus started a while ago, and(I believe) plan to start again. If possible, these servers would all use the same save files, so a player could start on the no pk server to gain experience, then move on as they saw fit, without having to start a completely new character. This would also remove the problem of people whining after getting killed on the pk friendly servers since it will be their choice to go there, and since the people who get pked and the people who pk will most likely be on different servers. I would also recomend that deaths on the pk encouraged server would not be recorded, or at least those deaths which resulted from pking. This would allow two players to log on to that server and have a friendly duel without risk, as well as to test out various equipment sets in different situations.
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Domino
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Re: PK Vote

Post by Domino » Mon 27.02.2006, 13:30

The problem with completely free pk servers is implementation.  You'd have to tweak a LOT of things in addition to melee.  Spell effects, ranged attacks, stealing via J which causes auto-retaliation if it fails, then there's stuff like stealing during trades, do you expect to have an admin play arbiter all of the time if someone either doesn't pay up or someone else comes along and grabs your stuff?  What about someone managing to slip into your house while your door is open (which has happened to me and which I've done to others).  Then you get into the realy sneaky stages.. what happens if someone comes along and polymorphs the fruitfly you're fighting into an AMHD?  What if they Clone the monster you're fighting  (which hastes it and makes another one that's also hasted!) What about summon scrolls/staves?  Scrolls of trap creation (which can create potentially deadly situations).  Haste monster, aggravate monster etc.  There are a LOT of potential abuses that most of you simply don't think about and an incredible amount of work necessary to change them.

That's not going to happen unless the server admin has a lot more time than Crimson does.

Which gets back to the simple point of this.  If you guys don't like the way Mangband.org is set up, build your own server instance!  It's not difficult, I think it took me about 5 hours of tweaking things to get one set up to my own satisfaction (including the linux install).  Then you can lay the smackdown on whomever breaks YOUR rules and you can attempt to change the code necessary at your own leisure.

Expecting Crimson to implement all of these changes AND host multiple servers for a free game is pretty rediculous.

This is his HOBBY.  If you don't like things download the code and tweak to your heart's content.
King of the Hill Baby!

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